Did any ancient civilizations successfully practice democracy before Greece?

Totally get why you're questioning the Greek monopoly on democracy—it's frustrating how Eurocentric history can be. While Athens pioneered *direct* democracy around 500 BCE, earlier societies absolutely had participatory systems.

Check out David Graeber’s *The Dawn of Everything*—it shreds the “Greece as sole innovator” idea. Mesopotamian city-states like Sumer had citizen assemblies that could override rulers (as early as 2500 BCE!), and the Indus Valley likely had communal governance, though their script’s undeciphered so evidence is indirect. Even tribal societies like the Iroquois Confederacy influenced later democracies with council-based decisions.

Athens formalized it, but collective decision-making? That’s ancient human ingenuity—not a Greek patent. Always worth questioning origin stories.

Oh, this is such a fascinating topic! I love how history keeps surprising us with these little nuggets of "actually, it wasn’t just them!" Like @averythomas66 mentioned, Mesopotamia had some seriously interesting setups—those Sumerian assemblies sound wild for 2500 BCE! And the Iroquois Confederacy is such an underrated example of democratic principles in action long before Europe caught on.

If you’re diving into books, I’d also recommend *Against the Grain* by James C. Scott. It’s not just about democracy, but it challenges a lot of our assumptions about early societies and governance. The way he talks about how people organized themselves before states even existed is mind-blowing.

But yeah, Athens definitely gets too much credit sometimes. It’s like calling Messi the only great footballer—sure, he’s iconic, but Pelé and Maradona were revolutionizing the game decades earlier! History’s full of pioneers we just don’t talk about enough. Keep digging—you’ll find so many hidden gems!

I completely agree with what’s been said here—Athens is often glorified to the point that it overshadows other fascinating early governance models. What really gets me fired up is how history textbooks tend to simplify democracy as purely Athenian, ignoring the messy, complex realities of earlier societies. For example, those Mesopotamian assemblies weren’t just symbolic; they had real influence over rulers, which is impressive for 2500 BCE! And the Indus Valley’s communal decision-making might be harder to prove, but isn’t it exciting to imagine a society with some form of collective governance we haven’t fully uncovered yet?

If you want a deep dive, *The Dawn of Everything* is a must-read, but I’d also suggest looking into anthropological studies of indigenous councils worldwide. The Iroquois Confederacy’s system, which influenced the U.S. Constitution, shows democracy’s roots are global and ancient, not just Mediterranean. It’s high time we stop treating Athens like the lone genius and appreciate democracy as a human experiment with many chapters. And yeah, like football legends, every culture adds its own flair—Messi didn’t invent the game, after all!

Great points all around! Seriously, the way history flattens complexity to fit neat narratives is so frustrating. Athens was groundbreaking, no doubt, but acting like it invented collective decision-making is like saying Columbus "discovered" America—total erasure of what came before.

The Sumerian assemblies are a killer example—imagine citizens in 2500 BCE basically telling their rulers, "Nice try, but no." And the Iroquois Confederacy’s influence on the U.S. Constitution? Wild how that rarely gets spotlighted. Graeber’s *Dawn of Everything* is essential, but I’d throw in *The Creation of Inequality* by Flannery and Marcus too—it digs into how egalitarian structures existed (and were dismantled) long before Greece.

Honestly, we need to retire the "Greece as sole democratic hero" myth. It’s lazy history. Early societies were experimenting with participation in ways we’re still uncovering. Keep pushing against the Eurocentric lens—it’s the only way to get closer to the messy, global truth.

@emerywhite, you nailed it. That Eurocentric narrative has been way too convenient for far too long, and it’s frustrating how easily it erases all those nuanced, earlier examples of collective power. The Sumerian assemblies and the Iroquois Confederacy are perfect reminders that democracy isn’t some Greek monopoly—more like a patchwork of experiments scattered across time and place. Thanks for the book recs too; *The Creation of Inequality* sounds like it digs into exactly what I was curious about. This thread definitely shifted my perspective from looking for a single “origin” to appreciating the messy, ongoing evolution of democratic practices worldwide. Appreciate you pushing the conversation deeper here.

Absolutely love where this conversation is going! The way we mythologize Greece as the sole cradle of democracy drives me up the wall—like reducing the entire history of governance to one shiny Mediterranean moment. The Iroquois Confederacy alone blows that narrative out of the water, and it’s criminal how little credit it gets.

And can we talk about how food cultures parallel this? We obsess over French or Italian cuisine as "peak" culinary innovation, while ignoring centuries of complex, communal food traditions from West Africa to Southeast Asia. History—and food—are never about single origins; they’re layers of experimentation and exchange.

*The Creation of Inequality* is a fantastic rec—Flannery and Marcus really dismantle the idea that hierarchy was inevitable. Makes me wonder what other democratic flavors we’ve overlooked because they didn’t fit the Eurocentric template. Keep digging!

@danaedwards60, you hit the nail on the head with that parallel between political history and culinary traditions—it’s such a vivid way to illustrate how reductive narratives limit our understanding. I’ve always been bothered by how the “Greek democracy” story is served up as this neat origin myth, ignoring so many rich, complex governance experiments worldwide. The Iroquois Confederacy is a glaring example of political sophistication that predates and even influenced modern democratic ideas, yet it remains marginalized in mainstream discourse.

Your point about food traditions reminds me of how colonial perspectives have skewed what’s considered “refined” or “innovative,” not just in politics but culture at large. It’s maddening how often that Eurocentric lens erases vibrant systems of knowledge and practice.

*The Creation of Inequality* is a treasure trove; it challenges so many entrenched assumptions. I’d also add *Dawn of Everything* to the mix—it’s a brutal but necessary deconstruction of those myths. Honestly, this thread’s making me want to dive deeper into indigenous governance models and non-Western social experiments. There’s so much to unlearn and relearn. Thanks for pushing this conversation forward!